Bear Markets with Fake Annie

Follow the hosts:
https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/Klutch_NFT

Follow the pod:
https://twitter.com/NorCalandKlutch

Music Credits:
https://twitter.com/RoomInEight

Transcript

NorCal and Klutch with Fake Annie

[00:00:00] INTRO: No call clutch stain know up on the show. That's keeping it real all about the art. No time, she day hundred first. So, you know, the deal show. So respect to the dope connect, they drop the outfit. You won't forget no waste in time. It's all by design, how it takes to make you straight.

[00:00:32] Klutch: First of all, how cool is that? Right. Solid, really solid. So, uh, yeah, 

[00:00:38] Annie: I, I wasn't that impressed. 

[00:00:41] Klutch: So, so ruminate made that for us. I don't know if you know that fake Annie. 

[00:00:47] Annie: I do. He's, he's one of my very good friends and is a generational talent. In my opinion, he actually does the, uh, he does the audio for a lot of the, uh, fake rares.

[00:00:58] Annie: He did the audio for two of my pieces, actually. Nice. 

[00:01:04] NorCal: Ah, 

[00:01:05] Annie: nice, good to hear. But that was, that was pretty lame. I think you could have done better for you

[00:01:15] Klutch: at least you're honest. Nah, 

[00:01:16] Annie: I'm I'm totally joking. Oh yeah. Let's let's start this off and make sure that everyone knows that I am a troll Barbie. So half of what I say is, uh, should not be taken seriously. 

[00:01:29] NorCal: Yeah. Just don't everything with a grain of salt.

[00:01:38] Klutch: So you wanna do intros then Noel? Yeah. So, so go ahead. 

[00:01:45] NorCal: I'm Noel guy, a collector, um, drinker of some beer here and there and a biscuit maker and I have a co-host clutch. 

[00:02:00] Klutch: Let's hear about yourself clutch. All right. I'm I'm K clutch. I'm a web two guy by trade. Um, I'm not a, a mega whale who made tens of millions in crypto, but I do love collecting art and I've been doing it now for about a year and I love the space and the people I've met in it,

[00:02:24] Klutch: Annie.

[00:02:28] Annie: Uh, so I am, well, sometimes I go by fake Annie today. I mean, who, who, who are you talking to today? You wanna talk to fake Annie, you wanna talk to fake fake Annie? You wanna talk to all of my nine personalities? I like real 

[00:02:45] Klutch: Annie. 

[00:02:48] Annie: Real Annie real. Annie is a, uh, an investor entrepreneur who dabbles in, uh, 12 different things.

[00:02:57] Annie: I, uh, I build companies in healthcare and clean energy mining, uh, technology, a little bit more agnostically and, uh, play with PEPs on the Bitcoin blockchain.

[00:03:13] NorCal: And you've done a great job. You've got like nine, nine rares out there, or nine cards I should. 

[00:03:19] Annie: Yeah, I think I have nine in between fake rares and fake comments. So I also do my, uh, my boyfriend bought, bought me an iPad for my birthday last year and convinced me that I could too be an artist. He's an artist himself.

[00:03:35] Annie: So, uh, he really pushed me to explore that avenue and, uh, filled my head with helium so that I could, uh, I could embrace it. And that's been, uh, that's been a bit of a fun hobby for me.

[00:03:53] Klutch: Nice. Thi this is kind of why we wanted to bring Annie on today, actually, because today we wanted to talk about, uh, the, the bear in the room and, uh, that'd be the, be in the bear market. Right. And Annie is a great, uh, guest. We felt because she, she is a builder. She is one of the main people behind, uh, pepe.wtf and that whole team.

[00:04:16] Annie: Um, fake news. that's fake news. see. I, I am not@allassociatedwithpepe.wtf, but I am a builder. Uh, and I am one of the, one of the galaxy brains if you will, behind fake rares. Okay. 

[00:04:34] Klutch: And she is an artist and, uh, she is a collector. She's got a mean collection. So definitely a much better Pape collection than I do.

[00:04:45] Annie: well, that, that stems from the, uh, the investor side of, of what I do. I am, uh, partners with Jason Williams. Jason Williams is, uh, he's an eccentric billionaire who created, uh, a very kind of cutting edge platform in the healthcare space built and sold that company and then decided to. Built within the crypto space, uh, a number of companies and also investment funds.

[00:05:18] Annie: And so he and I have, uh, have started a few funds that focus in different niche areas in the crypto space. And one of those is heavily invested in RA pet base. So we fell down the Rae rabbit hole last year, and, uh, one thing led to another. And of course, you know, we're able to amass a pretty, a pretty spectacular collection.

[00:05:44] Annie: I, I really am very proud of it.

[00:05:49] Annie: Nice. And you guys, you guys know all too well, the, uh, the, uh, the, the, the ability to get trapped in the leader board is, uh, It's pretty brutal. So, you know, and, and that actually wasn't created when we first started collecting that, that came after. So when we first started collecting, you had no insight into where you fell on, uh, on the leaderboard, but as soon as that became a tool, it just feeds that competitive nature.

[00:06:24] Annie: So, you know, you, you think you have enough PEPs and you realize that you certainly don't and there are 36 people. I, I think now we're, I think we might be 36 on the rare pep leader board. There are 36 or 35 people who have done a better job at bay.

[00:06:45] NorCal: Yeah. That pep leaderboard is always getting me. I'm always like, oh, I need to get some more comments just today. I was buying, buying as many as I could. 

[00:06:58] Annie: You know, I think the, uh, the other strategy is that you should make your own comments because I've seen that employed successfully by, uh, a number of people who have, uh, who have, uh, envious positions on the leaderboard.

[00:07:15] Annie: They create their own pieces. And so you create the competitive advantage of, uh, securing your position on the leaderboard. 

[00:07:23] NorCal: Ah, they create and do not distribute. So thus they have higher positions. 

[00:07:31] Annie: I'm not sure if it's quite that, uh, manipulative. Uh, I, I think they distribute, but, uh, but you also ensure that you yourself have those pieces.

[00:07:44] NorCal: Uh, that's true. That's true. 

[00:07:47] Annie: So go buy up some pep cash. I promise this is not a strategy to pump the pep cash market, but go buy a bunch of pep cash. and let's, uh, let's mint, some NorCal fake commons and clutch. You do the same, cuz I know you, well, you might not be quite as competitive as, uh, as NorCal guy, but I think you are, cuz I've seen you, you climb up the fake rare leader board at 

[00:08:14] Klutch: least.

[00:08:15] Klutch: Yeah. I can only do one at a time. There's there's I'm trying to collect on so many, you know, Ethereum everywhere, right? Like, so it's like you gotta pick your battles. I feel like, and I haven't even gotten to tezo see that. So

[00:08:33] NorCal: so bear market what's going on? 

[00:08:38] Klutch: Yeah, I think, well, first off I, I just wanted to say, um, we should probably let people know kind of what our show's gonna be and what it's gonna be about NorCal. And I talked about doing this for months now. Um, You know, a lot of shows in this space are very PFP focused and we dabble in PFPs.

[00:09:02] Klutch: We de Degen a little. Right. And, um, but there, there wasn't a lot of great spaces dedicated solely to art, let's say, and that's what we wanted to focus on. Cuz we, we see a lot of things going on. We're we're definitely both very into the market, spend a ton of time on Twitter. Right. And right. We see, you know, we see artists who are obviously very successful.

[00:09:30] Klutch: Some who used to be very successful, but now are struggling. Some who are, um, a lot who are trying different things, different drop mechanics, all sorts of things. So we want to, we wanted to come in and talk about all those things that artists have to deal with and collectors too. Um, there's not a lot of great shows that.

[00:09:49] Klutch: Help collectors that aren't PFP focused either. So that's kind of what our show's gonna be about. We're probably gonna have our opening song. We'll have a little bit of banter, then we'll have a, a general topic. That'll be the meat of the show every week. Um, we're gonna finish every show with some hot takes.

[00:10:05] Klutch: And, uh, so show one is yes. Gonna be about the bear market. We wanna talk about what we're doing, uh, what we think are good strategies. I know a lot of people, I talk to artists, other collectors, uh, in the DMS they're, you know, they've been stressed out, right? Like it's, it's not, it's not as fun as when the market was roaring, but, um, it's a great time to build.

[00:10:29] Klutch: I'll say that. 

[00:10:32] Annie: Listen, if, if people are in your DMS and they're not having fun, please invite them to. Join the Pepe ecosystem because I'm having the time of my life. I didn't even realize it was a bear market until you told me yesterday. And then I had to do some Googling to figure out what the hell that meant.

[00:10:55] Annie: see, I stunned you now. You're like, well, how, how do I respond to that? Because you know, that pep is bear proof. So if you are isolated in our tiny little intimate, wonderful community, you know that, uh, we don't even talk about bears. In fact, if you saw my last piece, you'll notice that the bear is a rug on the floor and the pep dominatrix is standing on top of the bear rug.

[00:11:20] NorCal: That's that's very true. I, I will admit that, um, the pep market has not slowed down. 

[00:11:27] Klutch: It it's probably picked up. I mean, look at these rare PEPs slightly. I was trying to get one of these like a month ago and now I might never get one of these . Hundred five Ethereum right now. 

[00:11:40] Annie: Do you have your Nakamoto?

[00:11:42] Annie: Cause I, last time I was talking to, uh

[00:11:47] Annie: Oh, we don't wanna talk about that. That's still a source subject. Cuz I saw someone pick one up the other day. 

[00:11:53] NorCal: I do not have one 

[00:11:57] Annie: did you get a hair pep? 

[00:11:59] NorCal: No, I think they're overpriced. Come on. 

[00:12:04] Klutch: What about you clutch? I don't have a hair PA, but I definitely. Okay. So like a month ago I had a shot at this at a Nakamoto and I was in the DMS and the guy was in the DMS with other people too.

[00:12:17] Klutch: Right. And playing us all back and forth and uh, I had the highest bid and then he came back and he's like, he decided to sell it to somebody else for 0.3 Bitcoin. Less than you cuz he liked the guy and I was like, oh you gotta be kidding. . That's messed. I know like the student's gonna be your best bud now.

[00:12:36] Klutch: Cuz he, he ripped you off. That's great. that's 

[00:12:40] Annie: that's not messed up though. I mean, I'm, I'm sad for you. Like I, I am kind of heartbroken for you for that loss, but that proves the point that it's not solely financially driven in the pep ecosystem. It is about so much more. There is this kind of inherent brethren and it is about the relationships and you know, this guy totally missed out cuz you are an angel clutch and you know, I'm sure if he had gotten to know you better, maybe, maybe you just came across kind of creepy in the DMS or something.

[00:13:11] Annie: Maybe we just need to work on your approach. 

[00:13:14] Klutch: Maybe, maybe I'll send you, uh, the transcripts later and you can let me know what you think. , 

[00:13:21] Annie: I'll do a play by play analysis for you. 

[00:13:23] Klutch: Okay. Uh, so anyway, how let's talk about the bear market. Um, you know, there's three, there's three groups of people here, right?

[00:13:32] Klutch: There's builders, there's artists and there's collectors, obviously Noel and I are collectors primarily. You're basically all three. Annie, what are you guys doing to, uh, to ride this out? And how long do you think it's gonna last and what are your strategies you're putting in, in place to make sure you're still around when we come out of this?

[00:13:55] Annie: So, uh, I, I say this every time and the space is recorded. So I am very careful to not give any sort of true investment advice because I know the feds have access to, uh, to these tapes. But I will say from the perspective of a builder, from the perspective of an artist and a collector, this is, this is the time to.

[00:14:26] Annie: Do more. And I communicate with a lot of people who take this time to slow down. And I think very few people are afforded the luxury to where they can, they can slow down and they can sort of reenter and find direction or enlightenment in that silence or in that stillness. But I think for most people that is the antithesis of how you should approach a bear.

[00:15:00] Annie: You should, in my opinion, for most people. And this is certainly how we approach it, do do more, build more focus, your time and your energy and your resources on putting, putting those aspects to work. And that's what we've tried to do with, uh, with PEPs in particular, but even with our positions in. And, uh, other verticals within this, this space.

[00:15:32] Annie: I think this also applies, you know, in and out of crypto as well for the sake of your podcast and for the sake of only having one hour, you know, I think you guys learned your lesson. Uh, I spoke with NorCal for like three or four hours and then micromanage the editing of that tape down to, uh, 82 minutes.

[00:15:52] Annie: So you've capped me here with an hour, which is smart. So I will try to stay focused on, uh, on what to do in the crypto space in particular. But I do think that, you know, being able to have your hands in as many things as possible and those the, the gems make themselves known. It's very clear to me, you know, we are.

[00:16:22] Annie: I, I have three active funds right now and have upwards of maybe 125 investments across those three funds. It's very, very clear to me which founders and which companies are doing good right now. And they're the ones who are consistently communicating with me on what is next? What is coming? What are they focused on?

[00:16:50] Annie: How have they pivoted? What are they doing with their resources? What kinds of, of adjustments and moves are they making? There are many that are silent, and those are the ones that, uh, that I'm truly concerned about. Now that said, there's, there's a balance because there are ones that chirp at you and you know, that , they they're chirping means nothing other than the fact that they have time on their hands to chirp

[00:17:17] Annie: But. The ones who, who share that, uh, that direction and you know, who give you sort of tangible, tangible views into what it is that they are doing with their time and with your resources. That's what gives me hope that the bear will, the bear is where those diamonds are forged. Mm. 

[00:17:47] NorCal: Yes. I agree with 

[00:17:47] Annie: that.

[00:17:50] Annie: And when you share that soundbite on your Twitter, will you please take the closed captioning and remove the stutters

[00:18:01] Klutch: that's that's on you NorCal? I don't, I don't do any editing. That's your job? we want it authentic.

[00:18:10] Klutch: what about you? NorCal? What are you? Are you approaching it as a collector right now? , you know, what's interesting. 

[00:18:17] NorCal: I feel , I mean, the PFP market definitely has tanked. Um, and like the currency market, you could say like the all coins and whatnot. Um, but one of one art still seems to have like some movement.

[00:18:39] NorCal: Um, I'm surprised that what I can go out and bid on and then get over bid on and see like a little bidding word happen. Um, so that's been surprising cuz they tell me, you know, they're saying like, oh bear market, bear market. But one of one seems to be doing all right. Um, from what I've seen in the last couple weeks, but, uh, as far as dealing with the bear market, um, just, you gotta stay here.

[00:19:11] NorCal: You gotta keep on putting stuff out. Keep my involved, um, my strategy with like current cryptocurrencies at least is I dollar cost to average and just set it and forget it, cuz this is the time when you build your wealth. Not, not during the bull market when things are skyrocketing 

[00:19:32] Annie: or you do both. If you buy the top, you also gotta buy the dip.

[00:19:38] NorCal: Right, right, right, right. 

[00:19:40] Annie: like, I'll admit I definitely bought the top, but you know, I don't even think about it because I'm also, I bought all the way down. I bought all the way up and I bought all the way down. Right. And then I lost it all on the boat. So, you know, , , 

[00:19:58] NorCal: that's what we all do. 

[00:20:02] Annie: now let me ask you what, uh, what are your thoughts on the impact of the bear on liquidity of these collections in particular?

[00:20:14] Annie: Uh, 

[00:20:15] NorCal: like PFP collections or, 

[00:20:19] Annie: uh, I mean, we can talk about PFP, but, or one of one arc. Yeah. I'd, I'd rather talk about like blue chip, one of 

[00:20:27] NorCal: one, uh, I mean, I, I mean, I haven't tried to sell anything. Um, so I can't, I guess say or talk to liquidity. Um, I mean, I guess a month ago there was a person looking for some work and he put bids out on an artist piece, like on every piece that was out there.

[00:20:48] NorCal: And then when he finally got an accepted, when he finally got, uh, was able to purchase one, he took his bids off of everyone else's pieces. Um, so I guess there might be a little liquidity. It's probably not great right now to try and sell one of one art. It's just a great time to buy it. Um, from a collector standpoint, cuz I still see, you know, one of one art being sold.

[00:21:12] NorCal: Just not from other collectors right now, except collectors that need liquidity. They're if I see a deal, I'll go consider buying it. I know there's one collector out or a couple collectors out there that are trying to liquidate. So you can find some deals. 

[00:21:31] Annie: I think I, what I see is the, there is less activity, right?

[00:21:42] Annie: There's less volume. But what you do see is that that liquidity comes at a discount. Right. So, right, right. I think to your point, these assets still still move and there still is incredible demand for them, which I find validating in a lot of ways, but the. The majority of collectors, unless they are in a liquidity crunch have really exercised their diamond hands.

[00:22:19] Annie: And I think very rarely do you see one, let go of particular piece, uh, a particular blue chip piece in part in, you know, in, in specifics, 

[00:22:32] NorCal: right? Right. Yeah. I mean, I think there definitely, if you are willing to sell and willing to sell at a reasonably good price, someone's probably gonna be willing to buy it.

[00:22:49] Annie: Is that, are you, are you, is that a promise? Oh, what are you wanting? I have a very rare, uh, 24 pixel cat that was sold to me by a friend, uh, a great friend who sold me this, uh, 24 pixel cat for. 2060 prices. So, um, I'd be willing to sell it to you for like 20, 50 prices. If, if you're interested in it. 

[00:23:21] NorCal: Well, we'll think about it.

[00:23:28] NorCal: clutch. What are your thoughts? 

[00:23:32] Klutch: You know, I, I came in a crypto late, so I was like the crypto as stupid guy. I really thought thought it was funny money. Right. And, uh, and then it took me like a decade to look back. And I remember one time I was like watching the CNBC or something and it was like, Bitcoin was a single best investment in the last decade.

[00:23:53] Klutch: And I was like, God, I'm an idiot. Right. Like, holy shit. I just let it all pass me by. And then, so I, I vowed like if, if I find something else that's not gonna be like, or that, that has that potential, I'm not gonna miss it. Right. And then I, I started. Watching NFTs. And I started learning about them and I, and I started believing in them.

[00:24:14] Klutch: And, and then, so I kind of AED into NFTs pretty hard last year on the, on the bull market and ate tons of losses on art blocks and all sorts of stuff. But over time, I mean, like I said, I'm not a whale, I'm just a, a guy who runs a business. I, I make decent money. So I, I kind of followed your strategy, your crypto strategy, Noel, where I'm dollar cost averaging into NFTs at this point.

[00:24:40] Klutch: And I'm finding artists, I believe in who I think work hard and I think are gonna be here for the long haul. And I'm, I'm betting on them, right? Because I, I look at them as, yes, not only are they making great art, but they are in a way making their own small business. Um, I started my business back in 2008, when the housing market was, was crap.

[00:25:03] Klutch: And I sell stuff that goes into houses. So everybody who was, who knew me back then was like, are you guys gonna go outta business? And I had to tell them at that time, listen, I, I don't have anything. Like, I'm starting from nothing. So like there's no other way for me to go. But up at this point, and I kind of still feel that way myself in, in a T investing.

[00:25:23] Klutch: Like it's all so new. And, and if you like, I've talked to 6, 5, 29 about stuff a few times, and he always says to me, there there's an unlimited amount of JPEGs that are gonna come out. Right? Like, no matter how much you buy there will be more and you will want more. Right. Mm-hmm so, so I I've thought about that and tried to internalize that and tried to think, well, what's gonna be my strategy, right?

[00:25:49] Klutch: Like what? I, I'm never gonna be able to outbid the guy. Who's got $20 million in. A theory of me bought it a hundred bucks. Like I'm just never gonna be, I can't compete with that guy. We're an, ex-cop one of one. Right. But I'm very good at educating myself about the space and learning about people and getting to know people.

[00:26:11] Klutch: Um, I spend a lot of time in DMS with artists and I try to find what makes them tick. I try to figure out what kind of work ethic I think they may have, um, if they are here for the long haul. And it's actually pretty easy, I feel like to figure that out. So, you know, you just start talking to people and you, and you can quickly realize like how they think, right?

[00:26:32] Klutch: Like, like there were people a year ago, for example, who were making it big on the bull market, they started hitting all time highs, eight to 10 Ethereum, a piece or something like that. And then now you look at 'em and they're trying to hold eight to 10 Ethereum floor prices. And they haven't sold a piece in six months.

[00:26:48] Klutch: Right. Right. And I I'm coming at this from like a business owner's perspective. Like. I can't do that in my, my work. I have to sell stuff every single day. Like it's the only way I have almost a hundred employees, right? Like, there's, there's just no way to pay the bills unless the money keeps churn. So when I'm, when I'm gonna be talking in this space, I'm gonna be, you know, using a lot of my, my experience and my, my web two background to kind of guide my thoughts.

[00:27:20] Klutch: And my thoughts are, uh, artists in general should treat their, their art, like a, like their own business. Right. And, and you gotta be able to be self-aware and, you know, question yourself and realize like, if I, if, should I keep holding this eight to 10 Ethereum floor and wait another six months to maybe get one sale, or should I start trying to build an army of followers?

[00:27:45] Klutch: Because let me tell you every time I've ever gotten lazy at my. Or, or like really wasn't accomplishing much for like a, a long stretch, cuz you know, I was just coasting or whatever. I've been doing this for 15 years. So you go through phases where you have that, you always end up looking back thinking, wow, I wasted that time.

[00:28:04] Klutch: I, I wasted it. It's just gone and I could have been building that whole. So that's kind of my thinking, like I think people should be using this sets of time to build it's your competition is probably thinning out because it is harder right now. Right. But if you, if you can survive through it, build an army of collectors that'll, you know, help advertise for you.

[00:28:34] Klutch: That's the way to go. I mean, look at, look at, uh, look at X copy and Guido. For example, these guys, they do have high floors of their, one of ones. they're very, they're so high that their market for tho those works are now like limited to 0.0, zero, 1% of people investing in this space, right? Like there's, there's not that many people who are that wealthy in, in NFTs.

[00:29:02] Klutch: So what did they do? I mean, they went and Guido did his big open edition, uh, same thing with X copy. Right? They made, they made price levels that are lower for, so they can hit those collectors. And that's what businesses do too. Right? Like they, a business doesn't try to just hit the, the top guy. They try to hit everybody.

[00:29:23] Klutch: Like you want, you want the luxury item for the mega wealthy person, but you want the low cost entry item for the single mom with two kids. Who's clipping coupons on the weekend. Right. And if you can service all those levels of customers, you're gonna, you're gonna grow a much stronger business down the road, in my opinion.

[00:29:46] Klutch: True that 

[00:29:48] NorCal: I know a lot of artists are starting to try additions and been afraid of them to begin with. But, uh, it's a good, a good trend to build up that collector base. You wanna get that, that thousand people, those thousand 

[00:30:04] Klutch: supporters look at like nifty every day. Like it's so cool. They like release, you know, uh, a couple one of ones or, and are one of five.

[00:30:16] Klutch: And then they have like an open edition, right? And like an artist can release three pieces or four pieces of work all at once. And they sell out like over 50% of the time, like it's, and you're, you're, you're letting other people at different levels become a fan of yours. Right. That's a, that's a powerful.

[00:30:36] Annie: Well, to be fair too. I, I think there's also power in, uh, an X copy in particular in his approach, because like, let's be honest, Chanel does not make, make bags that touch the average individual, the average, uh, the average human they've actually done the opposite. They've now limited the number of bags that you can purchase.

[00:31:01] Annie: You can only purchase one of a particular bag in a year, but what X copy has done as well to make his art more accessible, to propagate his brand and his presence is the, the CC zero. And I think that is yet another tool in their toolkit to approach that, to create these relationships that extend beyond.

[00:31:31] Annie: Beyond the physical investment in a piece, you can have a relationship. You can have a connection with an artist that allows you to collect their pieces or to participate in their journey without buying their assets directly. 

[00:31:49] NorCal: Hmm. True. Yeah, he's done great. I mean that, and then like grant Young's cow is those deriv derivatives have been great and there's so many of them, 

[00:32:01] Klutch: he had to bring up the cow, God

[00:32:06] Klutch: for, for those that don't know, grant offered me this cow, like multiple times. And I DMed with him so many times and I could have had it, but IED out 

[00:32:18] Annie: no, 

[00:32:21] Klutch: I, you know, okay. Here's what I did. I looked at it and I was like, it's not like all his other work. Is this a good thing to be on? And I, I was like frozen, cause I didn't know what to think about that.

[00:32:31] Klutch: Right? Like it, it wasn't some scene, it wasn't a, the space scene. It was like a one off. And I was like, is this actually gonna be like the piece I should collect? Or should I get the thing more? Like his, the rest of his work and turns out I should have got the one off

[00:32:54] Klutch: and now I'm still trying to collect a NY one of one, so, 

[00:32:59] Annie: well, um, if you need me to DM him for you, I'm happy to, 

[00:33:03] Klutch: well, I DM him all the time. 

[00:33:05] Annie: yeah. And how's that working out for you? You have that one on 

[00:33:08] Klutch: one yet? Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. 

[00:33:12] Annie: I'm also trying not to, uh, not to read into the fact that you didn't DM me until yesterday and it was about this space.

[00:33:21] Annie: You know, the fact that you mentioned earlier, you're focused on artists that you think have real potential too shape the space, moving forward, who are innovative and visionary thinkers. And yet, like I'm sitting right here looking at my DMS, waiting for you to message me. 

[00:33:39] Klutch: I'm already buying all your art.

[00:33:40] Klutch: Okay. Like

[00:33:46] Klutch: Ugh, you are, you are a fun one. Let me tell you that. 

[00:33:49] Annie: thanks. I think, you know, I, I appreciate your strategy bringing me on the first podcast, because here's the thing. If this podcast is an epic fail and you have like six people, listen, you can probably just blame me because you can just refer people to the 82 minutes that I talked to NorCal a couple weeks ago and be like, look, this is why no, nobody wanted to listen to fake Annie.

[00:34:13] Annie: Oh, 

[00:34:13] NorCal: whatever. Do 

[00:34:14] Klutch: a little bit of cover. Oh, that was my favorite episode. It was a very episode. 

[00:34:22] Annie: I, I, I still can't figure out if, you know, it's almost like if the queen of England or to give a speech and ask everyone to listen to her speech and then ask them for their opinion while she was sitting there listening to them, share their opinion.

[00:34:37] Annie: I wonder if anyone would say that it wasn't their favorite speech. I kind of felt like that with, uh, with this podcast.

[00:34:48] NorCal: Uh, if you weren't the queen of cards, you, you might be right? 

[00:34:53] Annie: Yeah. It would've, it would've gotten like two star reviews maybe who knows

[00:35:03] Klutch: Annie, if you were okay. So you're, you're an artist in the, in the pep realm, but say you were a strictly one-on-one artist right now, and you were struggling cuz of the bear market. What would, what would you do. 

[00:35:21] Annie: Oh, um, financially struggling. 

[00:35:26] Klutch: Yeah. You know, I, I assume if these artists are not selling stuff after a while, you know, may, I don't know, maybe they're doing commissions or maybe they have, I, I know a lot of 'em do have full-time jobs too.

[00:35:36] Klutch: Right. But some, some did quit and now this, they gotta limb by their art. Right. 

[00:35:43] Annie: Well, and here's, here's the challenge because I, I don't want to, I don't wanna misrepresent because I am first and foremost, an investor and an entrepreneur, I have only recently tapped into this side of my brain that is fake Annie, the artist.

[00:36:08] Annie: I don't know what it's like to be an, an artist who is. Whose inspiration is dampen by the burden of other professional aspirations. I know a lot of artists who their creativity relies on their ability to keep a free mind and for them to have multiple jobs, to be doing multiple things, it actually hurts their ability to execute their vision in a way that is true to true to their talents.

[00:36:45] Annie: So I hesitate to give advice to say, pick up other jobs, do other things, build something else, because I think that is potentially counterproductive to the quality of, of their craft. But to your point, I think you, you build, if you think of your art as a business, in and of itself, you can double down or triple down on your business.

[00:37:15] Annie: And that would involve you are a one of one artist, but, or if I was a one of one artist, I would find a way to expand my offering. And I think the challenge is doing that to a degree that does not compromise what your core values are and the value proposition that you've pitched to your collectors, because that's what this is.

[00:37:44] Annie: This is ultimately a relationship between you and your collectors. And I think a lot of, one of one. Feel a responsibility to deliver what they promised from the get go. They promised scarcity, they promised exclusivity. And I speak to a lot of artists who are predominantly one of one, and they all say the same thing.

[00:38:04] Annie: You know, they've achieved success. They're in a place now where they have more opportunities than they know what to do with. And it's this battle of understanding. What do you say yes to, and, and is it okay to shift your strategy? Is it okay to change and adapt what it is that you've expressed to be your offering?

[00:38:32] Annie: And I do think it is okay to adapt. I think I don't see the negative impact to your portfolio value. If you. Create addition to pieces, but just to make sure that you do it thoughtfully and I that's one reason I, I don't wanna, you know, unnecessarily chill, PEPs. That's not my intention, but what I've seen is the ability for this kind of dual chain dual ecosystem approach to allow a completely separate avenue for artists to express themselves and to broaden that exposure.

[00:39:21] Annie: So it's a very different world. It's a very different style of, of art. If you will, for a one of one artist who predominantly releases pieces on foundations to come and create a pep and drop an addition to piece on Bitcoin's blockchain, it's. A little bit of a different collector base and it's its own world.

[00:39:47] Annie: And I think that has been, I've enjoyed watching artists explore that and watching it unfold in a way that I think is really accretive to the beauty of their portfolio. So examples, sea light, Jake fried grant young, um, these, these artists and Jake fried just dropped a piece today. Actually it, it will, uh, it will distribute on Monday and, you know, he has

[00:40:22] Annie: He expressed to me, uh, on the phone the other day, this is a completely new experience for him. And, uh, Joe Pease actually said the same thing. They both echoed that Pepe. Creating their pep was, it was a joy and it was this almost enlightening experience, very different to the stress and the pressure and the focus and attention that they invest in their other pieces.

[00:41:07] Annie: It was a different creative outlet. And I think that is reflected in the work. And I think that is reflected in the distribution. And I, I like to see that and I'm rambling and I'm sorry for that, but I, I do think that this is really interesting and I would love to see more, one of one artist explore tapping into a different ecosystem.

[00:41:31] Annie: Connected in some way, but also gives them the freedom and the flexibility to test boundaries without it reflecting on the rest of their works. 

[00:41:45] Klutch: Yeah. These are great points. Um, I've heard, I've heard similar stuff from, uh, a C for example, uh, just talking about, you know, how it just feels different or, or rawness too, right?

[00:41:57] Klutch: Like they talk about when you get on, on Bitcoin, it just feels different. Right. And that's, it's interesting to me, but I, I, I like what you're saying though, because it's like, you're talking about, they don't have that same pressure. Right. When they're, when they're releasing their next one of one on super rare, right.

[00:42:14] Klutch: Like they always feel like I gotta go for the all time high. Right. And, and it's just unreasonable because your next piece cannot always be your best piece. Right. Like that's just impossible. And these guy and these people, they, they kind of trap themselves into thinking this. I feel like at times, and they put the stress on themselves and then they don't wanna over rerelease.

[00:42:34] Klutch: Right. So then they stop creating and they're like, oh, it didn't sell. So now what, now, now they stop creating. And then this is, this creates other issues too, right? Like you look at just the, the art or the, the process of creation. So important, I think to artists, because you look at how these people find their style that makes them successful.

[00:43:00] Klutch: A lot of it is stumbling upon it. I, I tweeted about this the other day. Cause I, I was fascinated by this. I was like, what, how, how did you find this blue style TJ? And then I, I had to reach out to sea light and I had to be like, I've seen your old stuff, you know, like your OG stuff from five years ago, but now you got this style that really took off in the last year with the grids and everything.

[00:43:23] Klutch: How did you find this. Was it planned or did it just kind of happen? And, and they all say the same thing, right? Like I just stumbled on it. I just kept creating, I created something that was successful and started gaining momentum. And then I created another piece that I tried to use some of those same, uh, you know, artistic principles within it.

[00:43:45] Klutch: And, and then that was more successful too. Right. So if you stop creating, cuz you're afraid to over, you know, have too many unsold pieces, you're kind of hurting yourself from, from potentially finding the thing that makes you really take off. Uh, what do you guys think of that?

[00:44:08] NorCal: No, I think, 

[00:44:10] Annie: go ahead. Go ahead. This is my show. Afterall right. yes. I'm the host today. Yeah, you sure? I have to say more. No, I'm kidding please. Nor how please speak. 

[00:44:20] NorCal: I think 

[00:44:21] NorCal: that speaks to just consistency. Um, you know, just. , which is what I think you and I are looking for, um, in these artists and creators, you know, that you're consistently gonna be here consistently gonna be putting out cuz as long as you're creating and continue to do that, you'll find your stride.

[00:44:44] NorCal: You'll find what works for you and what connects with people. And you'll find that group that connects with 

[00:44:52] Klutch: that. Yeah, for sure. Like, I, I always, I have employees who get frustrated at my company at times and they they'll say, Ugh, my sales are bad last quarter. Like what do I do? Right. And I'm one thing I always tell them is, you know what?

[00:45:06] Klutch: Success is not linear. It's it's never linear. Like you, you want it to be right. You always want it to be continually going upward. But you know, it's more like the, the song two steps forward one step back, right? Like that's, that's how it really is 99% of the time. So. If you can't, you, you gotta just keep making, I think, and creating.

[00:45:28] Klutch: And I think that's gonna give you more, more chances at success than stopping and waiting. 

[00:45:36] Annie: And I think the other piece to that is also understanding that the success isn't necessarily the peace selling today, we are exploring and creating a new world and that new world is founded upon the idea that these are historical documentations of your growth as an artist of your expansion through your own career, but also your step by step contributions to the space and you creating a piece and putting it on chain.

[00:46:24] Annie: is the, the building of your portfolio and your provenance, whether that piece sells today or in five years. I don't think that really is the measure of success in, in my opinion. Um, and I think, you know, you, you see that with, with a lot of, a lot of artists and even kind of his historical artists before and irre, irrespective of blockchain, there are time and time again, stories where the art is not appreciated until.

[00:47:04] Annie: The artist is dead, or, you know, maybe the artist lives to see their art appreciated, but it might be 20 years after the piece was created. And that's part of being innovative and, and novel is creating things before people realize they like them, or they want them, or they need them. So I would say that you're, you're spot on in that sometimes we need to reframe our thinking around what it means to be a successful contributor, a successful creator, a successful artist, a successful builder that really just involves continuing to build, continuing to create and continuing to contribute and share your talents with the world.

[00:47:49] Annie: And this is just a mechanism to do that with permanence. If you, if you meant on Bitcoin, 

[00:47:58] Klutch: I always gotta get, get those, uh, Those min on Bitcoin bits in there. Huh? 

[00:48:04] Annie: now, I mean, I, I am a, I'm a Bitcoin money maxi, but I am technology agnostic. I am a tech maxi, and Bitcoin has a long way to go to, uh, to develop technology that is, you know, that is optimized.

[00:48:21] Annie: And I think there are a lot of benefits to the technology platform that exists on Ethereum. Uh, Tezos too early to tell. I, uh, I, I don't necessarily feel comfortable speaking on that, but no hatred against Ethereum whatsoever. Just always gotta do a little dig, you know? 

[00:48:45] Klutch: Sure. Of course, of course.

[00:48:50] Klutch: Well, we're, we are at the final, uh, 10 minutes of the show, so we want to end every show with hot takes. 

[00:48:57] Annie: I thought that was a joke. You're really gonna keep it to an hour. 

[00:49:00] Klutch: Yeah. Yeah. For real, for real, 

[00:49:03] Annie: I, I still have 45 minutes more of things to say, 

[00:49:07] Klutch: well, you're gonna have to fit 'em in the next 10 minutes.

[00:49:09] NorCal: Drop that thread. Twitter thread. 

[00:49:13] Annie: no. All right. Let's uh, let's let's get on these hot 

[00:49:15] Klutch: takes. Okay. One, one second.

[00:49:21] Klutch: It's

[00:49:28] Klutch: I had to get that in there.

[00:49:32] Annie: I, I did not know that was coming. I feel like you should have warned me. 

[00:49:35] Klutch: Yeah. Ruminate made that one too. That's pretty cool. I can tell. So anyway, heart takes, I know NorCal has some fire ones. Oh no. You want, you wanna go first? Norco? Um, I could go first too, if you want. 

[00:49:52] NorCal: yeah, let's hear. See, let's do it your first.

[00:49:55] NorCal: All right. 

[00:49:56] Klutch: Uh, a lot of people are saying PFPs are dead. I am gonna disagree. Um, I will say, uh, based on a lot of people saw the thing going back and forth, uh, between yeah, yeah. And Kobe like a week ago or whatever talking about, and if teaser out coins and I got to thinking about it quite a bit. Right. And then it was funny cuz like they were both trying to imply 6, 5, 29 would be on their side and then 6, 5 29 kind of came in the middle and it was just funny.

[00:50:26] Klutch: But I, the more I thought about it, the more I was thinking, well, you know what, when I think of NFTs and the different kinds of art within NFTs, I feel like during a bull market PFPs are the blue chip. But during the bear market, they're the shit coin. what do you think? 

[00:50:46] NorCal: I agree. 

[00:50:48] Klutch: Like they, they dove so hard, right?

[00:50:50] Klutch: Like it's crazy. Like they're just. like, they were the one everybody wanted to get into when it, when it was bull market. Right. Everybody, everybody wanted them. But now like 90% of 'em have tanked, like completely. Yeah. 

[00:51:04] NorCal: I mean, you 

[00:51:04] NorCal: don't see, like looking down in this spaces, you see more original PFPs than the hot, the hot 

[00:51:14] NorCal: new thing.

[00:51:15] Klutch: Yeah. And what's holding value better now in the bear market, right? Like it's like the legit art, the gen art, the one of ones the, uh, PEPs are holding up really. So in the bear market, it seems like those things all become the blue chip. It's kind of funny. 

[00:51:30] Annie: I feel like you guys might have to coordinate a little bit better cuz I thought the whole purpose I had to Google it yesterday, but I thought the whole purpose of hot takes was uh, controversial, spicy topic of which there's disagreement.

[00:51:41] Annie: And you guys 

[00:51:42] Klutch: literally just, okay, fair enough. Fair. Okay. Alright then I'll come with this one. Um, the shit coins are gonna lead us back out of the a bull market.

[00:51:55] Klutch: When we bull again, it'll be some shitty PF

[00:52:03] Klutch: watch. I it might be true. 

[00:52:08] Annie: Yeah. Well, I mean, why don't you say something that couldn't be true. Give me a latte. That's just straight trash. 

[00:52:20] Klutch: Well, I didn't think of one of those 

[00:52:23] Annie: clutch clutch went and, and, uh, Googled what everyone else is saying. And he is like, all right, this is, everybody believes this hot take.

[00:52:30] Annie: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this one so I don't get into trouble. 

[00:52:33] Klutch: Okay. That's fair. All right. This is good criticism. See, like, I will take this and absorb this and show two. I will come out with something totally ridiculous. That makes everybody hate me. That's a good point. Pineapple 

[00:52:46] Annie: belongs on pizza 

[00:52:48] Klutch: there.

[00:52:48] Klutch: There's a good one. There you go. It'll be like, uh, what was that movie? Um, with Howard stern, right? Like the people who hate you listen twice, as long as the people who like you. 

[00:53:00] Annie: That's so true. And I, I told you yesterday, uh, I do think it'd be really cool to do a show that you just read the negative reviews.

[00:53:09] Annie: So if like people say hateful things, you just like read those comments on a show. I think that'd be fun. I'll kick it off. I'll uh, I'll write a really nasty, uh, Twitter thread when I, okay. Kicked off in five minutes, 

[00:53:25] Klutch: give us like five stars on our podcast, please, but then write a scathing review. So it looks really weird.

[00:53:33] Annie: That'll be the fake 

[00:53:34] Klutch: view. There you go. There it is. All right. You guys have any hot takes or what? 

[00:53:42] NorCal: I'll go along with the, the PFP thread, um, that, uh, I've heard this from a couple people, one person down the audience. I know in another, uh, Rob this, I like this take that, uh, the B a YC is the, uh, the ed Hardy of the space it's popular, but, uh, for how long?

[00:54:02] Klutch: Mm that's a good one. I just watched that documentary on, uh, Netflix, not too long ago. It was, or maybe it was Von Dutch. They're oh, they're almost the same thing, right? Like same. Yeah.

[00:54:17] Annie: I think, I think it depends on popular with who, because I think that you've got a crowd of, you know, maybe 50 year old institutional investors who find Bornea yacht club appealing. Uh, but what I'm most fascinated by is a lot of the newer collectors and arguably more of the, uh, innovative collectors seem to have no interest whatsoever in, uh, in being a part of that ecosystem.

[00:54:52] Klutch: Yeah. I could see that. Plus he also kind of just feel like you missed it now, right? Like if you know what happened, like how the ape blew up and then the, the mutant and. The dog. And then everybody got ape coin and now you're just like, Ugh, they pulled out like all their moves now. Like what else can they do?

[00:55:08] Klutch: Right. Like there's only so many mystery boxes and stuff you can drop before. you kind of like running out of potential moves, right? 

[00:55:18] Annie: Yeah. Or, uh, you just, maybe you just, uh, start to position yourselves in, um, I, I was gonna make a racist joke, but I'm not gonna do that on our course. Yeah. Don't do that 

[00:55:36] Klutch: so.

[00:55:37] Klutch: Well, what is, uh, what is funny about this is, uh, NorCal brought this one up and he's the one who's got, uh, eight bags actually. but not very big. I was trying to, you have, you have hundreds of thousands of dollars and eight bags. Don't be modest here.

[00:55:58] Annie: did you get the physical merch? Did you, do you have big enough bags that you, uh, got like hoodies and backpacks and stuff? 

[00:56:06] NorCal: No. I just have a couple hoodies, which just been thinking about selling or giving away to other people. 

[00:56:14] Annie: I, well, I think if, if you wear them with like you wear the BA Y C hoodie and a pep hat, then you can ensure that only cool people will talk to you out in public.

[00:56:29] Klutch: how's the, 

[00:56:30] NorCal: how's that explain how's that works 

[00:56:34] Annie: because only people who know are gonna come up and talk to you. And then really the, the board, a yacht club people will make themselves known and you'll be able. Kind of ignore them, um, and just tell them that you got the hoodie from the, uh, good will bin and that'll really offend them.

[00:56:52] Annie: And then only the pep people will come talk to you. And they're the cool ones. Ah, 

[00:56:56] NorCal: got it. Got okay. Okay. I do have a couple, uh, Nakamoto hats coming in from, uh, scarcity. So did they come with the Nakamoto? 

[00:57:05] Annie: No

[00:57:09] Klutch: stop.

[00:57:13] Annie: am I ever gonna get invited back? 

[00:57:17] Klutch: Of course. 

[00:57:18] Annie: Do I get to do, can I do the anniversary episode in one year? 

[00:57:23] Klutch: That's a good idea. Thanks. That's a great idea. You got any other hot takes? Norco?

[00:57:34] Klutch: I don't know. That's question 

[00:57:35] NorCal: nothing controversial. Um, don't be afraid of, I mean, Your floor price is not, I mean, what you last sold is not your floor price. So that's what 

[00:57:49] Klutch: I would say. That's a good one. It's always lower. Like, I, you look at that leaderboard for the PEPs, right. And it's like the current floor price of your PEPs.

[00:57:59] Klutch: And mine's like almost a million dollars. And I'm like, oh my God, that's crazy. But really it's probably like $300,000 or something.

[00:58:11] Annie: uh, yeah. It's, it's all it's right. They like, they want you to feel good about the value of your bags, but also it's this it's, it's like this complex operation to simultaneously touch your competitive nature, but also give you just enough confidence that what you're doing makes sense that there is value to what you own, but it's also, you know, you could always get more.

[00:58:44] Klutch: Yeah, that's true. The other day I had to go, there was a one from dark farms that was like, uh, had like some $400,000 floor price. Right. So I had to like go hit up dark farms in the DMS to see if he had any and he did. Right. So I bought it for like, I don't know, it was like, I don't know, it, it was like 0.7 or something like kind of like what the last ones were going for.

[00:59:12] Klutch: Right. So I, I was able to add that, but then instantly my value of my portfolio looked like it was worth like 350 grand more. So it was pretty nice. That is nice. 

[00:59:23] Annie: You know, my favorite part of that story was just hearing that you were successful in the DMS. 

[00:59:29] Klutch: Thanks. You know, sometimes I get it done. how about you, Andy?

[00:59:34] Klutch: I meet 

[00:59:35] Annie: my wife. Did you, uh, did you meet 

[00:59:36] Klutch: her. Okay. I gotta, this is a long story, but not that long. Actually I met her at a bar. She was a bartender and, and yeah, I'll tell you this. We went on one date and I was such a duas. She did not go on a date with me for two months.

[00:59:56] Klutch: she blew me off and blew me off. And finally, I, one of my cousins came to visit me a, a female cousin, and she went to the bar with me and she pulled her aside and like talked to her and was like, you gotta date my cousin. He's a really nice guy and all this stuff. And she got me date too. And then it was, you know, all great from there.

[01:00:17] Annie: so you should get your cousin to help you close some of these, uh, sales, 

[01:00:22] Klutch: the DM deals. Yeah, maybe. Oh, okay. 

[01:00:26] Annie: Yeah. Turner loose on grant Yon and see if you can, or who owns the cow now? 

[01:00:31] Klutch: Uh, defiance works. I think. But he ain't selling no way. Turn, 

[01:00:36] Annie: turn your cousin loose on. And if, if he could, uh, or if she could get your wife to date you again, then maybe she could get defiance to sell you the cow.

[01:00:45] Klutch: Yeah, maybe. All right. Annie, do you have any hot takes before we take off? 

[01:00:51] Annie: Uh, I'm already two minutes over, so I'll, um, I have a real spicy one, but I'll just save it for next year's episode. Throw it in. No, I was just, I was lying. I, I, I don't have one. I literally had to Google what hot takes or yesterday.

[01:01:06] Klutch: All right. Well, next year we're gonna expect some fire then there you go. All right. Well, I guess that's a show, show one in the books. Hopefully we just keep getting better and better 

[01:01:16] Annie: from. Oh, is that why you invited me? See, I told you why 

[01:01:22] NorCal: up to . We can only go 

[01:01:23] Klutch: up I, you were so good on, on nor Cal's. I was like, I need her to carry me in case I suck.

[01:01:31] Klutch: So there you go. Well, I, 

[01:01:33] Annie: I, I texted, uh, I texted NorCal. He had asked me to, uh, to come on a show and I didn't respond to him for 24 hours. And he was like, is that a yes. I'm like, I was just giving you time to either like, recover the blackmail that CLE has on you or, uh, or come to your senses. So, you know, I, I appreciate the invite.

[01:01:54] Annie: Uh, this has been a ton of fun and I, you know, I just, I don't really wanna know if I'm like B string or like, you know, fifth round draft pick. I'll just pretend like I was your first choice. So I'm honored to kick it off. 

[01:02:11] Klutch: Well, well, thank you. It 

[01:02:13] NorCal: was awesome to have you. 

[01:02:17] Annie: All right. Where's your, where's your closeout music Colts here?

[01:02:20] Klutch: Well, I thought Norco was gonna do the outro. the outro. Is that a thing? Yeah, 

[01:02:29] NorCal: but I mean, it was, we don't have any, I don't know if we have any music specifically for this, unless we 

[01:02:33] Klutch: replay the intro. I think we replay it. Got it. But, but, you know, we just say thank you everybody. That's the show. Yeah. 

[01:02:41] NorCal: Thanks.

[01:02:42] NorCal: Thanks for coming. Thanks guys. Enjoy all your day. Have a great weekend

[01:02:48] Klutch: nor call clutch stain 

[01:02:51] Annie: up on the show. That's keeping new 

[01:02:54] Klutch: all about the art day. First, you know, the deal show. So respect to the dope connect they drop the alpha. You won't forget no was in time. It's all by design. How it takes to make you straight.