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Music Credits:
https://twitter.com/RoomInEight
Follow the hosts:
https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/Klutch_NFT
Follow the pod:
https://twitter.com/NorCalandKlutch
Music Credits:
https://twitter.com/RoomInEight
006 NorCal and Klutch Nude Art
[00:00:00] Klutch: All right, welcome to this show everybody. Are y'all doing
[00:00:06] Giga Chad: good? Amazing, Easy.
[00:00:08] Klutch: So today we, I, I guess we didn't really release it yet, but I've seen a couple people guess what we're gonna talk about. Uh, yes, it's Nude to Art. So that's the topic. We, we went after, uh, one artist in Aaron who, uh, Does collages with nude art.
[00:00:28] Klutch: And then we, we went after probably the biggest collector I know of nude art in, uh, to talk, uh, talk to us about nude art. Uh, do you guys want to introduce yourselves a little bit?
[00:00:45] Giga Chad: Ladies first?
[00:00:48] Erin: Oh, you're too kind, sir. Thank you. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm Aaron McGeen. Life with Art. I make collages with nude art. Um, I'm quite interested in nude art. I collect a little nude art. I know that, um, Ala was invited to be here and it, it would've been nice to have a model as well, but it was kind of, um, you know, a little, little too late for that.
[00:01:12] Erin: But, uh, yeah, I'm excited to talk about kind of how, I don't know, Newar is received issues around it. Ideas, opinions. I'm excited to hear from you guys and yeah, that's it.
[00:01:28] Giga Chad: Thank you, Giga. I am giga Chad. I am a collector in the space. I've been in crypto for nearly 10 years. Uh, have sort of moved away from trading and finance and all that stuff and just enjoying the, uh, life in the art space.
[00:01:45] Giga Chad: Um, bought my first nude piece, I think back in January or February. Uh, my friends started making fun of me and that was a perfect recipe for me to just, uh, start buying more . Um, and then I linked up with Nude Yoga Girl as she was starting up the neighborhood and we've been forming, uh, kind of a nice community, which Aaron is a huge part of as well.
[00:02:06] Giga Chad: So, uh, yeah, we have discussions like this, uh, almost every other Friday, I believe, on our own spaces. So excited to, uh, reach a wider audience with this. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:19] Klutch: Yeah, thanks for joining us. You also drop some of the wisest tweets, I swear, uh, like it feels like every two weeks you drop a tweet, get acha.
[00:02:27] Klutch: That's like, blows all of our mind. So thank you for that.
[00:02:32] Giga Chad: I, uh, I am made fun of because I'm always, uh, drafting like seven tweet threads at any time and rarely finish any of them. So, yes. Thank you,
[00:02:46] Giga Chad: Well, you
[00:02:46] Klutch: guys know Norelle and I, uh, Norelle. You wanna lead us off? Yeah. So
[00:02:51] NorCal: I mean, today we're looking at N Art and exploring, um, like I guess we can just start off, um, like why is female nude to art generally more accepted today, even though historically male nude art was more prevalent.
[00:03:12] Erin: Who wants to take this big heavy question? ?
[00:03:17] Klutch: I I could go first if you, I know what I think, but I, I wanna hear from you guys because you guys are in the scene more. I, I don't collect that much new art. I have a few, but my first, my first instinct is Puritanism , like as, as, uh, dorky as that sounds. Okay. So I grew up in the Midwest.
[00:03:43] Klutch: I grew up Catholic, and slowly my family became more Protestant. And along with that came a lot of Puritan beliefs, right? And if you go look up like Puritan beliefs towards nudity, they always say that nudity outside the context of sex is evil. . And so while we were DMing earlier this week, I was really trying to research us quite a bit and I was even looking at the Catholic church and I was thinking, Wow, you know what?
[00:04:21] Klutch: Look at the, look at the creation of Adam by Michael Angelo on the Sistine Chapel. And that is a male nude, right? But if you look at that whole ceiling, there's male and female nudes all over that thing. So the church didn't have that big of an issue with it in the 15 hundreds. However, over time, Purton beliefs came about, and obviously, especially in America, I would say our view of nude art is, you know, much more anti it than other, other cultures.
[00:04:53] Klutch: I've talked to friends of mine from other countries like Europe and they say it's crazy how different America is because America. Will censor nudity on television but won't censor violence. And then in Europe it's almost the exact opposite. So I don't, I don't know why male nudity is more, more, uh, more anti today than, than female.
[00:05:22] Klutch: But I do feel like somewhere in there is like the recipe, but I'm not quite sure yet. So I'm hoping you guys can fill me in,
[00:05:32] Klutch: you know, gig.
[00:05:32] NorCal: I know. Or Aaron,
[00:05:34] Erin: go ahead. Okay. I'm go, I'm gonna jump in. I wish. Sorry, giga. I, I won't speak too long. Um, I wish I knew, like more history. I wish I had studied like women's studies and universities, so I had um, actually more information. But I think you brought up a few points and something that's interesting is that there's this hypersexualization in like mainstream media.
[00:05:57] Erin: Yet there's this also censorship, um, that happens in art. So there's like this contradiction. Um, but I would argue that the female nude is, is generally more accepted today because, um, it's just become, um,
[00:06:15] Erin: I just got a call there. Um, and you have mostly male artists, uh, making art and consuming art. And so their taste is, you know, mostly generally, um, for the female nude.
[00:06:34] Erin: So
[00:06:35] Giga Chad: that's it. Yeah, I can hop in there. I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of factors to the kind of cultural shifts, right? I think one of the things we brought up in kind of our preparation conversation, which I think extends way beyond just nude art in general, but there's a sort of a, like a survivorship bias or heuristic where.
[00:06:55] Giga Chad: You know, uh, we, we don't really know the balance of what was, uh, made and revered in, uh, you know, in historical cultures. We just know what's survived into the current day, right? So all of all of the art that we associate with history filters through, you know, the institutions that we're able to, um, best preserve and protect, uh, works of art.
[00:07:18] Giga Chad: Um, you know, they didn't have NFTs in the past, so they didn't have the kind of, uh, uh, uh, uh, rock solid, uh, protocols of the blockchain. You know, they had to actually protect entire buildings or, uh, statues, things of that nature. So I think that's one factor. Um, probably a smaller one. I do think there is also, uh, just the cultural shifts of the modern age, right?
[00:07:40] Giga Chad: Um, you know, the, uh, women's liberation movement. Sort of the early 20th century. Um, a lot of that, uh, you know, you, you can sort of trace the, uh, the amount of rights that women have in, in the workplace. And so, uh, socially and kind of culturally based on, uh, how far from their kneecaps their, uh, their garments were allowed to fall, right or above their kneecaps.
[00:08:03] Giga Chad: Um, and so I think that's another factor as, uh, women kind of achieve more autonomy in the workplace, in society in general, in positions of leadership and power. The, um, the willingness of society to, uh, view a woman's body as, uh, something, you know, that, that that can be a piece of art that can be, uh, bought and sold even, um, in the context of fine art, um, has grown.
[00:08:32] Giga Chad: And, uh, along with that, there are also all of the trends that I'm sure we'll get into at some point, uh, around, uh, sexual propriety, um, just. Behaviors towards sex in general. But I really think that you kind of nailed it, clutch that at least in the west or in America in particular, uh, we are a very, uh, puritanical society.
[00:08:54] Giga Chad: We, uh, we're sort of founded by the Puritans quite literally. And, uh, along with that, uh, comes a certain culture. Um, it's why American work ethic is, uh, sort of viewed singularly. Um, and, uh, it's why we are at least in the eyes of the rest of the world or most of the rest of the world, we are kind of prudence when it comes to nudes.
[00:09:23] Klutch: I like that. That could be like a rap lyric
[00:09:30] Klutch: So, so if you guys, if you guys are looking at nude, nude art in general, right? Like to me, when I look at it, it seems like it. Primarily photography and, and collages. I guess what, what do you, how do you guys like find your N art? How do you guys evaluate it? How do you, I mean, obviously we all use Twitter, but are you guys, I know Giga, you're like huge collector, like maybe the biggest I know.
[00:10:06] Klutch: So like what, what are you doing? Like what, what kind of styles are there out there and how do you value and evaluate it? And would you collect male new art?
[00:10:19] Giga Chad: Yep. So I have said this in previous spaces, but I kind of pride myself on taking, uh, the west beaten path towards finding emerging artists. It's kind of a point of pride that.
[00:10:31] Giga Chad: Not looking at retweets or trending auctions in order to decide what to buy. I'm kind of digging through, uh, the bottom of the crate to find artists who, uh, otherwise are not getting spotlighted by, uh, algorithms around us. Um, personal preference, but it's also, I think, one of the ways to, uh, kind of instantiate my taste.
[00:10:53] Giga Chad: And, uh, as far as what do I look at when I'm evaluating things or even the, the difference between, uh, photography versus, let's say digital illustration. I mean, if you, if you look through my portfolio, it, it skews very heavily towards, uh, photography, uh, nude photography. Um, and I think part of that is just collective preference.
[00:11:15] Giga Chad: I think if I'm going to, uh, sort of celebrate the, uh, the human body, um, in its raw form, um, of photograph is, uh, just a more immediate way to do that. Um, I still, you know, this is kind of a personal, uh, peeve of mind or something that I need to kind of get over, but as I, uh, look towards digital illustrations of, uh, human forms and figures, I, there's a, there's a cheapness to the quality, uh, in my eyes, which is, is not, uh, you know, not reflected across the space.
[00:11:48] Giga Chad: It's just sort of a, an immaturity of myself as a collector that I, I look at something that's digital illustration and, um, it, it just, it, it feels, I ignorantly like easier to accomplish, although I know that's not necessarily true. I have bought, um, illustrations, drawings, um, certain things of, of that nature where, uh, like just the hyper realism is so mind blowing, uh, that I, I can't help but.
[00:12:18] Giga Chad: You know, just, just fall in love with a piece. Um, I think I have an Iranian artist in particular who does, uh, faces, eyes, lips, uh, where I like to troll my friends, uh, and ask them, you know, Hey, what do you think of this photo? Oh my God, it's amazing. It's like, it's not a photo. She drew that with pencil on a piece of paper.
[00:12:36] Giga Chad: So, uh, you know, that, uh, that goes a long way for me, the kind of hyper realism. And I know there, uh, there's one artist in. The, the nude space, uh, in the nude neighborhood, whose name I am unfortunately forgetting right now, who talks in particular about just how difficult it is to, uh, you know, to model the, um, the human body in 3d and how, uh, like the censorship of nude art in general, uh, across a lot of the old school 3D platforms is, um, it's so prevalent and so devastating because like his, his work, his technique is being able to make the most realistic, uh, depictions of a naked body.
[00:13:19] Giga Chad: Um, so those are things that I'm trying to explore a little bit more. Um, you know, there's all other brands of art that I'm into as well. I think there was another part of your question that I forgot, but I've been speaking long enough, so I'll pitch it to Erin.
[00:13:37] Erin: Yeah, I think one of the reasons, maybe clutch that you say, uh, photography is, is mostly just this space. Like, I think we're, we see a lot of photography. It does kind of dominate the space overall. Um, and that's because it's probably digitally native and it's been, you know, NFTs have been a great outlet for digital photographers.
[00:13:58] Erin: I, I would argue though, traditionally news were, were less photography and more, um, you know, sculpture, painting, drawing, and, uh, and those other mediums. Um,
[00:14:09] Klutch: yeah, that's true. Like Z for example, he's a painter. Everybody knows her.
[00:14:13] Erin: Yeah. And, and you know, I'm thinking of the books again that I cut up and I mentioned this, uh, in our space last week and I've kind of researched some of these new, uh, books from the twenties.
[00:14:23] Erin: Like, they really did try to airbrush out any parts. They, they kind of like, you know, put this just solid piece of skin over the vagina area and, um, Just even how that started was, you know, women mostly taking pictures of each other and they were kind of risque and, and you know, then they, then they kind of justified it as being like, uh, artist reference photos and, and things like that.
[00:14:46] Erin: Um, but yeah, you know, it took a while, I guess for, for nude photography to be accepted in, uh, the Western tradition. I guess
[00:14:56] Giga Chad: I, I think we're also kind of building a, a global culture here, right? Um, so as we as, uh, artists from cultures around the world start participating in the space, we, we see a lot of artists kind of coming out from under the rock of, um, you know, uh, more oppressive versions that would not let them, uh, do this kind of thing.
[00:15:17] Giga Chad: One, one of my favorite, uh, Iranian photographers is, is quite literally not able to do, uh, new photography, um, in any public manner, um, without risking his life. And, uh, I. Pray that that changes. Um, but I think that there's elements of that that kind of, um, beget, um, just a, uh, uh, a a change of tides for artists all over the world.
[00:15:46] Giga Chad: Right? Um, there's like a, um, there's an element of, uh, kind of acceptance, uh, of what's happening, uh, what's been happening in the West for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years with kind of the rise and acceptance of pornography. The, uh, the, just kind of the, the prevalence of, uh, nude imagery, uh, writ large. Um, you know, it's interesting that you brought up Z because I've had conversations in the past where, uh, you know, uh, someone, someone brings her up and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, she's a new artist.
[00:16:21] Giga Chad: And they're like, Huh, She's, she's not a nude artist. And it's like, well, , you know, there's, I guess there's room for kind of subjective measure there. She doesn't self-identify as a new artist, but a lot of the, uh, Ukrainian, Iranian, uh, you know, a lot of the photographers from, um, some of the more conservative cultures do self-identify because they're, they're, uh, it's a, it's a statement against the culture that they grew up in.
[00:16:46] Giga Chad: Um, and so I think there, there's an element of that as well, like what is nude art? Um, is it just if the, you know, the artist, uh, wishes to be called a nude artist? Well, there's some cultural relative relativism there that I think is, uh, worth examining or at least taking into account. That's
[00:17:05] NorCal: interesting.
[00:17:06] NorCal: Uh, point there. I didn't, I didn't, I guess I've never asked her how she identified herself as, um, just that cultural reason and I guess maybe just she feels it's more art. I don't know. I guess she just feels it's more artistic. I don't know. It's interesting. Um, now giga as far as collecting, um, your decision between deciding on artists.
[00:17:33] NorCal: Now, if this artist is the subject themselves, like say new yoga girl or ala versus the artist using a different, a non-model, do you have different ways of valuing that? Do you appreciate like the self portraiture versus having a model?
[00:17:54] Giga Chad: Yeah, it's, it's interesting actually, I've gotten this discussion with a couple artists this week.
[00:17:58] Giga Chad: Um, you know, what, what are the, what's the role of, of a model in the NFT space? Is a model an artist into what degree? Um, I think those are all interesting questions for me. Uh, whether it's, you know, self portraiture or a man shooting a woman, or a woman shooting a woman, or a man shooting a man or a woman shooting a man, which is exceptionally rare, um, most of that does not factor in, uh, You know, uh, in general there's an element of, uh, I think I said in our chat, like authenticity, where, um, if I feel I, if I'm looking at a piece, uh, from an artist and it feels like they're trying to sell me sex, but they aren't necessarily wearing that with the rest of their image, uh, you know, in the space, um, that feels a little inauthentic to me.
[00:18:50] Giga Chad: And so that's kind of one of the, you know, demerits that I'll put towards, uh, buying a piece from an artist. Um, and on the flip side, if, you know, they're kind of. Open, uh, sexually. If they, uh, you know, are, are wearing that on their sleeve and their work has sexual content, then, uh, you know, all good. And if, uh, they are, uh, you know, on the flip side, um, creating work that's like clearly of like a nature, like non pornographic, non, uh, evocative nature, let's say, uh, and, um, their presence in the space, how they show up to, you know, Twitter, Instagram, whatever it might be, is reflective of that.
[00:19:33] Giga Chad: Then also all good. It's where that kind of dissonance lies that it feels, you know, kind of like one of those only fans, girls that's showing me memes on Instagram, when really she just wants to funnel me into, uh, her subscription model for pornography. That's where I, you know, the lines get blurry and I tend to take a step back.
[00:19:52] Giga Chad: Um, as far as valuing our, uh, like monetarily, I mean, All bets are off there. It's, uh, at the higher end once you go above kind of one e per piece, it's, uh, it's all a matter of, uh, just supply and demand. And I think this, uh, space at large still has yet to really, uh, wake up to, um, the presence of N art and just how prevalent it is amongst creators.
[00:20:18] Giga Chad: Um, and there's a few enough of us with, uh, the, uh, the courage, let's say to, um, collect something like that in such a public manner. That's
[00:20:31] Klutch: interesting. Uh, I'd like to bring that back to Erin then, because Erin, do you feel, since you are using Aon models, do you feel like maybe you are perhaps treated differently in your relationships with collectors than somebody like ala or, or a new yoga girl would be?
[00:20:47] Klutch: Because obviously with them, right? Like if they're selling their piece, I've told ala this before, like, that's your side boob. Like, you know, that's different to me than like Anon model that Guido takes a picture of and the fact that I actively know her like, and have a friendship with her, like, so to me it's just feels a little different.
[00:21:15] Klutch: What, How do you
[00:21:15] Erin: feel Aaron? Well that's, uh, there's so much to say there and I can first of all understand why it feels different and like why it might be. Um, and we'll probably get into this a little bit more, a challenge to collect it, to be honest on some levels. Um, especially if you're, you know, with somebody and your partner doesn't want that, uh, you have to consider that for sure.
[00:21:39] Erin: But, um, you know, going to, using yourself like I used to use myself in high school and, and I think I stopped probably just cuz I wanted to see a better version of myself and also it. When I got into collage, it kind of became about how women were, um, depicted in media and I wanted to incorporate a bit of that message into my work so it became less about myself and more about kind of women in general.
[00:22:06] Erin: Um, my type of woman anywhere or where I kind of come from. But when I think of like ala new, new Joker girl, um, you know, it's, it's different to use yourself and certainly there's a vulnerability, but, um, I think I like an artist maybe like, you know, Frida and, and maybe Cindy Sherman, and that these women are like exploring, um, you know, themselves through their art and actually, you know, showing themselves is, is really gotta be paramount and important to the, to the meaning of the work.
[00:22:40] Erin: Uh, you know, maybe they're exploring their effect on the world, their power, their, uh, Beauty, um, you know, who knows? But, but certainly it's, it's, it's about them and, you know, I'm sure some people might look at it differently and there's lots of ways to look at it and that's why we're having this conversation cuz it's so multifaceted in, in terms of who you are and where you come from, your perspective.
[00:23:10] Erin: But, um, I, I will just end it with this. I think for me what's important is the relationship between the artist and the model. Whether it's themselves or whether it's someone else. Um, I personally don't like collecting art if it feels like there isn't a relationship there. If I've heard from the artist through them telling their story that there's a relationship there, that the work is more meaningful for me, um, then it just feeling like maybe it was just someone anonymous model who got, you know, paid a small.
[00:23:44] Erin: I
[00:23:44] Giga Chad: think I can bring this back to sort of the overbearing culture. Um, you know, the kind of, uh, tried and true western values are that you, you know, you don't talk about yourself at a dinner party. You don't self promote. Um, and I think, uh, in a lot of ways for viewers and enjoyers collectors of any kind of art, there's an element of, uh, you know, seeing, um, a model or seeing a beautiful image, seeing something that's aesthetically pleasing, technically competent and enjoying that.
[00:24:15] Giga Chad: But then seeing on the flip side, it's like, Oh, this person is selling photos of themselves or selling, you know, whatever it might be of themselves. I, I think there's parts of our culture that kind of, uh, bulk at that. And I, I think, um, you know, this is much less prevalent on, uh, on the west coast in, uh, the sort of, uh, areas where, you know, Hollywood and, uh, entertainment media has been.
[00:24:40] Giga Chad: A mainstay for a century or more. Um, that's kind of just the, just par for the course. I think most, uh, parts of the country and the entire world, um, view that, uh, with a little bit more tension. So I think there's, there's elements of that as well. Um, how I navigate those, uh, again, it's, it's kind of individual to the peace in person.
[00:25:04] Giga Chad: Um, I'm like Erin, or maybe I misunderstood her, but, uh, there, there's, uh, it's like, it's, it's a bigger risk, uh, for uh, for an artist to, um, You know, to have a storied piece because of the relationship with the model or with the subject of a piece. Um, and that risk should, uh, be rewarded if that story, uh, resonates with me.
[00:25:31] Giga Chad: And I also think, you know, historically, a lot of the, um, a lot of the part, like a lot of the women photographers in particular, uh, using themselves as models, uh, was kind of like a breakthrough moment or like a, uh, an inflection point in their career. Um, and that sort of paved the way for those who, uh, do it, uh, just as a matter of course, throughout their career.
[00:25:57] Giga Chad: And I still think that the art world at large has, has yet to really, uh, come to terms with that completely.
[00:26:10] NorCal: Now, I guess kind of going further beyond that topic of.
[00:26:18] NorCal: Someone exploring themselves further. Like, let's say a hypothetical question, like since some people equate nude art to porn, say an only fans girl comes into the space, um, and is selling nudes of herself, is that still art or is that like a cheap porn or only fans content? Is that art? Um, I mean, I know there's lines, I guess different for different people, but I guess, uh, Okay.
[00:26:50] NorCal: What are your thoughts on that?
[00:26:53] Giga Chad: Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to what I said about authenticity, at least for my, my collecting style. Um, are they using it as, uh, you know, a form of advertisement for a subscription model for what is porn? Are they simply a, um, you know, a. Quality porn star in one realm, and also a quality photographer, painter, whatever it might be in another.
[00:27:18] Giga Chad: And they are, uh, kind of, uh, you know, using those dual modes of expression, uh, tastefully thoughtfully. Um, I, I, you know, I've kind of in private circles, uh, made the joke that the only fans, girls are coming for the space. And I do think that's true, um, for a host of reasons. Uh, I, I think that the kind of crux of that question of whether or not it's porn, um, it, it comes down to really two factors.
[00:27:46] Giga Chad: It's the, um, the intent of the artist. Are they trying to sell you, uh, sexual gratification? Are they trying to sell you? Um, you know, something else, Aesthetic, narrative, uh, again, technical competency, whatever it might be, or, uh, you know, or that's one factor. The other factor, uh, being, you know, what, how do the viewers feel?
[00:28:07] Giga Chad: And this is where it gets a lot messier because, you know, I, I like to believe that artists kind of define, uh, the narrative around their own work. But there's, uh, a model for, um, art, uh, collecting, art history, whatever it might be, that the sort of, the consensus of the viewers is the reality. And, you know, if you show the same image to 10 people and nine of them feel it's pornographic, then.
[00:28:34] Giga Chad: It's kind of hard to argue. It isn't no matter what the artist's intent were, uh, or was, and so there, there's an element of that as well. Um, yeah, I'm not sure if I answer the question or just, uh, left more gray area there. I
[00:28:51] Klutch: Well, how about Aaron? You, you use these, uh, old pictures, right? I don't know where you get these things, but to me, you know what's funny?
[00:28:58] Klutch: It kind of looks like what I imagine Playboy would be like 50 years ago, . So maybe it does come from that. I don't really know. I've never asked you, but, so it might have, like, that was kind of what porn was, right? Like years and years ago. Is these images that you're turning into collages and now it's more artistic, right?
[00:29:18] Klutch: Because, uh, poor now actually is, you know, quite a bit more que or dirty than it probably was 50 years ago. Um, Could you add onto that at all
[00:29:29] Erin: here? Yeah, sure. Like, it's funny because I, when I started finding these vintage nude, uh, model books that, um, I pretty much use exclusively, Oh, can you hear me? ? Um, I can hear you.
[00:29:46] Erin: Yeah. Okay. Then I went to, uh, a Are you okay? Noel .
[00:29:54] Klutch: Noel, we hear you. You do not have it muted. Whoever you're talking to, you're not muted.
[00:30:02] Erin: he's worried. Press muted again. We'll hear his family. Um, so I went to get some Playboy actually, cuz I thought, well, you know, I need more vintage nudes and I wanted some color ones and stuff. And so I went to like a, oh my gosh, it was so funny. I, I, I bought the monkey Gigi and then I was gonna go pick them up and.
[00:30:19] Erin: I don't know, maybe a little bit of a questionable neighborhood. And my husband's like, Where are you going? I'm like, Oh, I'm going over here to pick up a creative Playboy magazine. He's like, I'm coming with you. I'm like, Oh, okay, . But anyway, they, they were, they let me down. They were really safe, like much safer than, um, I wanted them to be.
[00:30:38] Erin: It's weird, and it's, this is off topic, but anyway, uh, I was disappointed. , um, , I'll go back on topic now. Giga hit it on the head. For me, it's like intention. Like, is it meant to be, you know, like when they stay in the movies, like gratuitous, um, you know, flashes of whatever, or, you know, is there a meaningful purpose behind the nudity?
[00:30:59] Erin: Does it like, play into the story and, you know, I think it's for, there's gray area for sure, but like, is the intention to, you know, get you off or is it to, you know, make you think about other things and, and contemplate other things? Um,
[00:31:17] Erin: Yeah, I, I guess that's it for me. I think that answers the question, .
[00:31:23] Klutch: Yeah, that makes sense. It's, it's funny, who was that one artist that came in the space, uh, recently from like France or something and they just really, like, they were, they passed away and they, the family was releasing their entire portfolio with a bunch of photography.
[00:31:37] Klutch: Who was that? Do you guys remember?
[00:31:40] Erin: Um, Is that that guy? Guy? Guy. .
[00:31:43] Klutch: Yeah, that guy. Exactly. So that guy, Right. So it's interesting, like you think about people back in those time periods, What was art? What was porn like? I know exactly what you're talking about, where you were disappointed cuz I remember being a kid and finding my dad's stash.
[00:32:01] Klutch: Right. . It was just like, you know, it was Marilyn Monroe and it was, uh, van of White and it was like, Oh my God, this is crazy. Right? And it, and I was just a kid, but. But like, I can pretty clearly remember some of these, and I think today they would all be like very artistic in their, in how, what people think of them versus what people think of porn today.
[00:32:23] Klutch: So I think it's, it's pretty interesting.
[00:32:27] Erin: I, I need to add one thing that, um, I have to say that really hit me when I was young in high school, I was using the nudes then, as I said, and my teacher was like, Well, you need to read this John Berger essay about the Naked and the Nude. Which, you know, at that time, whatever, 16, 17, naked, nude, like, I'd never thought about the difference between them.
[00:32:47] Erin: And the essay goes into the difference between the, you know, the terms naked and nude, and nude being more like on display, uh, as a work of art meant to be viewed. Where naked refers to kind of like more of a voyeuristic. Um, you know, we're not really supposed to be watching we're, we're a fly on the wall kind of, um, you know, psychology.
[00:33:09] Erin: And, and I think that plays a little bit into. Porn and only fans, it's, you know, it's not like we're, you know, openly invited into the story. It is a little bit more of a voyeuristic, kind of like taboo, like sneaky feeling. And, and I think there's like an urge in, in all of us on some level to, um, you know, partake in things that are maybe taboo, some of us more than others.
[00:33:32] Erin: Uh, and so, you know, that there's that part of us that will always be, um, attracted to kind of whatever it is in your culture. That's, that's kind of not allowed. And I, and I have to just wrap up by saying I really, um, wanna resonate with, or, or reiterate, I, sorry, what Giga said about being genuine, because there's a lot of, you know, people that say the images aren't sexual when like, they really are.
[00:33:58] Erin: And you know, I think the male gays kind of term is outdated a little bit for our times, but, um, it's still, it's still there and it's still prevalent. And it's not just if a male. Photographer is making the work. It's if, you know, it's, if the work, um, is accentuating and highlighting, highlighting the sexual parts, uh, of the model.
[00:34:19] Erin: So that's it.
[00:34:27] Klutch: Thank you. Hey, Noel, you there still?
[00:34:32] NorCal: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what was going on, but, um, yeah, I'm here. Um, okay, Now's far. Has, um, continuing on spouses or significant others, let's, let's talk about that. Um, I've seen that excuse used a lot, but mostly by artists. So I assume artists here, this and the dms. I have also seen people joke about this being a hangup, but should it really be something to joke about?
[00:35:05] NorCal: I mean, I know personally for myself to just jump at this, um, definitely wouldn't want something that, you know, my wife would be disagreeing with. Um, cuz I, or like I think about hanging something on the wall and, you know, having my kids see that or something. So I guess that's always, comes, always comes to my mind when I'm considering what I'm buying.
[00:35:34] NorCal: Aaron, do you have any thoughts on that?
[00:35:39] Erin: Yeah, I think, you know, you have to, as someone who's married and has children, uh, I would expect that of my husband and it would, I'm, you know, being honest and like all, all the more power to you if you're a liberated modern couple and Ken. But if my husband wanted to hang a art of a model that he like knew, you know, personally and, and damned and stuff, it would make me uncomfortable.
[00:36:00] Erin: I mean, I tried to. You know, rise above it and be confident. And I think I probably could, but I could see where there's an issue that, um, and from personal experience, like I had a show this summer in my work. I know it's kind of feminine, so it probably attracts, uh, women more anyway, just cuz the aesthetic of it.
[00:36:19] Erin: But honest to God, like 95% of the people who came, uh, to look closer at my work were women. 95% of the buyers were women. And I swear, I, I started kind of watching, like it was almost like sometimes if it was a, a husband and wife walking together, like the guy would look and then he'd be like, Oh, that's a lot of n art.
[00:36:38] Erin: And then he'd like intentionally like look away, like, Oh no, I'm not interested in that honey .
[00:36:43] Giga Chad: Yeah, that happens all the time, .
[00:36:46] Erin: So yeah, I think there's definitely an issue there. And even like. My own father who could possibly be in the space. I mean, I know, you know, my, my stepmother, she's not really comfortable with nude art.
[00:36:57] Erin: She'll be open and honest with me about it. And so it's hard for even my father to hang my art in his house.
[00:37:06] Giga Chad: I, I think the parent child dynamic, uh, is a little unspoken for in that, in that story ,
[00:37:12] Erin: but, well, it's not me , but yeah, I get, I get it.
[00:37:17] Giga Chad: Uh, my answer here is easy. I have the privilege of being a kind of single childless collector. Um, I think we, uh, the hosts and I have a mutual connection with artifact who has, uh, really smashed it outta the park in private conversations about what, uh, what he teaches his children, uh, in appreciating the human body and form.
[00:37:40] Giga Chad: And I aspire to that someday. But for the moment, uh, I just, I let it rip. If I like it. There's kind of no one stopping me and I realize that's a, a total privilege. Um, but, uh, my future spouse will probably, uh, have to, uh, contend with my pep collection well before my nude collection. So,
[00:38:05] Giga Chad: yeah,
[00:38:06] Klutch: it's, it's just funny to me cuz it's like, um, I see a lot of nude photographers and stuff kind of play it like, uh, they're the victim of this, right? Like, Oh, can you believe it? They're not gonna buy my stuff cuz their spouse. And I'm like, Dude, my spouse had a baby two months ago. If there is a moment in her life where she might be a little insecure, it is my job as a husband to be very mindful of it.
[00:38:31] Klutch: So I am not gonna be overly paying attention to, uh, other women's nude bodies at this moment in time, but maybe that's just me.
[00:38:41] Erin: No, but you know, the, the nude artists have to realize, like, you know, what they're doing when they choose that genre that they are limiting themselves, and that's the choice that they've made as an artist, right?
[00:38:51] Erin: Like, if you wanna play it safe, go to still life photography or landscapes. Sorry guys.
[00:38:58] Giga Chad: I, I, I sounds, I agree with Aarons. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think Aaron's right if, I mean, if you wanna be a part of, uh, any kind of, you know, liberate the nipple movement, um, you know, you're, you're going, you're gonna take some battle scars, so just make sure they're all on the front end.
[00:39:13] Giga Chad: Um, I mean, to any artist in the space who have met this behavior from collectors, uh, you know, a kind of passing interest that turns into, Oh, my wife won't let me, or, Oh my, you know, husband won't let me, or what, whatever it might be. Um, just know that, uh, sometimes it's genuine and sometimes collectors are just looking for the easiest way to back out of a conversation because, uh, They're inundated.
[00:39:38] Giga Chad: Um, so you never really know what the real story is unless you have already a degree of trust with that collector. So I guess I'm saying that to encourage, uh, you know, the artists in the space who have, who have met that behavior, but um, yeah, uh, they're always looking for an escape hatch. And if it's as simple as saying, Oh, my wife won't let me, it's kind of the most, uh, socially acceptable way to back out of, uh, uh, an interest and a purchase.
[00:40:08] Giga Chad: That's a good point.
[00:40:12] Klutch: How much nude art have you collected? NorCal? Any?
[00:40:18] NorCal: Yeah, I have a few pieces for sure. Um,
[00:40:21] Klutch: you got, you got a Zuck, I know that.
[00:40:23] NorCal: Yeah, I have a couple from her and, um, I have some Meg bats and, uh, some Aila. Definitely have some Aaron, so. And,
[00:40:32] Giga Chad: um, Kim Henry Gotta throw that one out. Kim Henry? Yes. Know you took one of those off me.
[00:40:37] NorCal: So . Yeah, so I mean, I have a few, but I, I, you know, I tend to go, I guess more ta what I would consider more taste for not as revealing.
[00:40:49] NorCal: Would
[00:40:50] Klutch: you collect meal nude art? Art?
[00:40:54] NorCal: Yeah. I mean, I guess it just depends on how I feel when I see it, you know?
[00:40:59] Klutch: Um, like Ru Regina Womba, right? She does a
[00:41:02] Erin: How do you feel when you see it? Or ,
[00:41:04] NorCal: Right? . Right. Uh, you know, I guess it's just how it's done. Um, and I guess it's the intent. Uh, I don't mind it. Uh, I guess it's just like, what's there, what's not there?
[00:41:19] NorCal: And would I put that on my.
[00:41:24] Giga Chad: I think it's interesting that, you know, I, I don't think any of us in this space would, if, if there was a, you know, brand new artist, 20 years old who was a, a sculptor who was making, you know, the sort of like classical era, uh, you know, uh, male nude sculptures, um, even in the modern day, we would all look at that and we would just think, Oh yeah, that's, you know, of course the penis is shown, you know, it's like, uh, the full body, right?
[00:41:50] Giga Chad: Um, but the same thing in photography or digital illustration would, uh, at least make us double take, if not just turnaround completely. Um, and I've, I've said this in a nude neighborhood space in the past that, you know, being, um, Uh, sette being, you know, straight white male. If you want, uh, you know, this might be a bias here, but, uh, the, the male nude that I, I would like to collect that I do not see in the space, this sort of gap between my taste and what's on offer.
[00:42:22] Giga Chad: Um, I would really like to see more, um, men kind of in the traditional masculine role. I, I can think of a photo that I ended up passing on, which I regret now of, uh, two, but ass naked dudes, uh, like doing traditional like Mongolian wrestling, right? Documentarian photo, uh, great composition, fantastic lighting.
[00:42:44] Giga Chad: Um, there's no, you know, sexual content there whatsoever. Something like that, like really intrigues me because it's kind of a, a man, uh, in his element, at least, you know, in the traditional, uh, mindset. I'm certainly not trying to, uh, pigeonhole any male model into being a certain way or any photographer from depicting certain imagery of men that they think resonates.
[00:43:08] Giga Chad: Um, but even the more kind of, uh, overbearing culture of like, what a man supposed to do. He's supposed to work, he's supposed to chop down trees, he's supposed to, you know, provide for his family, that kind of thing. Um, it's, it's not even there in our space. And I find that very surprising. Uh, when, for the longest time that would've been considered, um, sort of the, uh, the, the default, uh, method of depiction of, of men in our society.
[00:43:36] Klutch: That's a good point. I bet you find that historically a lot in, uh, museums where, you know, I mean, what are paintings from the past, Right? They're. Representations of what people were doing at those periods of time. I, I have a, like obviously there was a lot more male nudity in art back then and they had no problem showing it.
[00:43:56] Klutch: And, and I bet there were some lumber jacks or something probably in those pictures.
[00:44:03] Erin: Yes. It's a, it's a weird topic cuz a and I talk about it a lot and I'm pretty convinced I'm somewhat brainwashed to just also think the female nude is, is kind of more to be gazed upon or looked at or revered than the male nude.
[00:44:20] Erin: And, and also when you, uh, were speaking gig, I was thinking it is also strange that the male needs that are coming out do seem to kind of fall into like the sexy, um, genre and you know, so do the female nude though as well. Um, and it'd be nice to see like a little bit more. Variety on, on kind of all fronts of, of nudes in different types of scenarios and environments.
[00:44:45] Erin: Um, but it's just to, you know, I, I'd almost like people to, to chime in, in the chat or in the, uh, comments here as to why they think, you know, there, there is a, I don't know, an underlying issue. I mean, hearing, um, Hugo speak and he made a great sale today. I wish he was here. Um, you know, it's been a real struggle for him as a, as a photographer of male nudes canceled everywhere and, and censored everywhere.
[00:45:13] Erin: And it's like this last front, this, uh, you know, free the nipples. It's free. It's like free the penis now, . Um, yeah, it makes people uncomfortable, I think.
[00:45:25] NorCal: I don't know. I don't know. For some reason, I feel like there's also like this, like shunned, like the male body is shunned, like girl, like you hear, um, Like, like it seems like, like I used to work in an office and it was all girls and they would just make fun of like, Oh, I got this.
[00:45:42] NorCal: Dick pick is terrible, da da da. Like, it's all like shunned. I feel like, and that just could be from my experience, but I think that's possibly part of it. No one wants, I feel like there's like this sense of no one wants to see that type thing. And, and that's, and everyone is in that point right now. And I guess it just needs a change.
[00:46:08] Giga Chad: I, I don't wanna see it. Don't DM me. Dick pics Pretty pleased. .
[00:46:14] Klutch: What about at the next chunks and down meet up? We should maybe do some, uh, nude wrestling air
[00:46:19] NorCal: Dr. Some airdrops. That dense.
[00:46:21] Giga Chad: Yeah, that sounds great.
[00:46:24] Klutch: Uh, somebody did ask in the comments it was, uh, Ior, uh, Reno. I hope I'm saying that right. He said, Do you consider implied nude or implicit?
[00:46:33] Klutch: Nude still nude? What do you, what do you guys think? I, I had to Google that cause I was like, What is implied nude? And apparently it's like people that are nude, but like, kind of covered up.
[00:46:44] Giga Chad: Yeah. It's, uh, like based on all of the context of the, of the photograph, you can assume that the model is nude. Um, but the, there's no depiction of.
[00:46:54] Giga Chad: Sexual parts, right? The nipples covered up, and certainly the rest. Um, my answer is, uh, somewhat sweeping and I think easy. Uh, I like if it arises to the occasion of art, then it's just art. I don't try to categorize it. Um, too much short of, you know, when I'm in kind of the role as a curator, like I did for the new neighborhood gallery, um, it was important to me to, uh, pick from multiple styles just to broaden representation.
[00:47:23] Giga Chad: Uh, but as a collector, when I'm engaging with a piece and looking to buy, uh, there, there's, there's no difference whatsoever to me. Um, and maybe that's my own brainwashing, cuz all I have to do is again, open up Instagram or go through any, any website with ads on it and, um, I'll see plenty more than what most of the artists here have on offer.
[00:47:50] Giga Chad: Thank you.
[00:47:52] Klutch: Uh, I'm looking at our topics and we're kind of running low on time, so I feel like we should just go right in hot takes right now and then finish it off with, uh, telling everybody where you, where, where people can learn more about nude art. And your, your guys', uh, community. Hot.
[00:48:12] Giga Chad: It's so hot.
[00:48:19] Klutch: Uh, would you get, do you guys have some hot takes? Would you like to do some?
[00:48:25] Giga Chad: I think I let one leak already that I think the, uh, I think, I think the, uh, only fans, girls and, and guys are coming for the space. Um, I have pretty intimate knowledge of what the business models are like there. Uh, there's good reason, uh, to protect kind of the models or, uh, porn stars for them. Uh, you know, the only fence does a good job of that.
[00:48:48] Giga Chad: You know, you, uh, you can't write, click save someone's work there, uh, which is ultimately, uh, probably pretty good for them at the moment. Uh, but there's massive fees. There's cartels of management companies. There's, uh, you know, um, insider sort of connections to the platforms that they use to funnel towards only fans.
[00:49:09] Giga Chad: And, uh, Web three, you know, is certainly not a perfect space, but I think, uh, is a lot more egalitarian in that way. And I, I just think anybody who's bulking at some of the more artistic things that, uh, are on offer now and saying, Oh, that's pornography when I strongly disagree, uh, they're in for a shell shock I think in the next couple years.
[00:49:33] Giga Chad: Yeah, that's
[00:49:33] Klutch: funny that you brought up, uh, that as your hot take cuz as you know, from our dms, that was gonna be kind of mine too. Uh, here's my thinking a about it, I feel like, and uh, so I'm, I I've adjusted my hot take slightly, but I feel like what this can do for what this technology can do for nude artists, especially models, is it can, you know, make their career longer.
[00:50:03] Klutch: Uh, obviously when you're doing that and you're, the model age is a, you know, it's an, it's, you know, it's coming for you, it's gonna end your career at some point, just like a pro athlete basically. Right? Um, so maybe, maybe somebody can develop a only fans web three competitor that slightly, you know, alters the.
[00:50:29] Klutch: The model, like obviously only fans is subscription based, but what if there was, you know, long term, you know, like residuals, like for an artist, what they get If you do enough art artistic stuff in NFTs, I mean, maybe that gives you residual earnings for your lifetime, but I'm not sure , What do you guys
[00:50:51] Giga Chad: think of that?
[00:50:52] Giga Chad: I mean, I, I like it, and again, we kind of discussed this in the dms, but I. Um, I, I think a model that really makes sense is, uh, you know, a way that you could almost reward your earliest, uh, supporter subscribers of, of an only fans by giving them a transferable token, Uh, by having a limited number of subscriptions available.
[00:51:13] Giga Chad: Um, you almost turn the, uh, the guys who are kind of, you know, first to subscribe into porn curators, essentially, right? And, uh, as a, a model kind of levels up in his or her reach. Um, as, uh, the subscription reaches cap, uh, there's going to be kind of an implicit demand there where the, uh, the earliest, uh, buyer of an access token now kind of has like a flip on their hands to, uh, to capitalize on and they can move on to the next one.
[00:51:43] Giga Chad: Um, and I actually think that model works really well for not just, uh, porn, but also for music, for instance, for for few other forms of media that, uh, this space hasn't, hasn't really quite figured out.
[00:52:01] Giga Chad: I think, um,
[00:52:03] Erin: going into the only fans' discussion is, is probably, you know, could go into another, another whole space certainly relates to nude art, but I'm all for, uh, any kind of, I guess sex work. I don't know if that's an extreme term, but for them having, you know, um, self sovereignty and control over their, their, uh, their funds and how they, uh, you know, how they elect their funds and all that.
[00:52:28] Erin: So yes, yes, please to that, uh, I don't, I don't know if I have a hot take. One thing that I, I wanted to bring up w was the, the Madonna complex, which is like that idea of like marrying a virgin, but um, you know, sleeping with the horror on the side. And it's not just a man thing. I think it's, you know, metaphorically in our society, we all kind of, uh, fall into that trap of, you know, wanting to live wild and free.
[00:52:54] Erin: And, you know, that's maybe the metaphor for sleeping with the horror, but knowing that we have to kind of buckle down and be responsible, get, and get things done. And, and I think a lot of the battle here for nude art, like lies in there. Uh, you know, us not kind of knowing, um, that gray area of what's, you know, acceptable amounts of wild and freeness and, and when do I buckle down and, and how can we reconcile, you know, our primal need and want and desire for, for sex with our puritan ways, as, as you said at the beginning of the space and, um, Make it a little bit more acceptable.
[00:53:33] Erin: I'd like to see it, and I think it is, but you know, the pendulum then can swing too far, which, you know, as a mother then scares me too. That's my hot take. .
[00:53:45] Klutch: That's good. I never heard of the Madonna complex before, but I'm Googling it right now. Hey, Nor Kelly, You got one?
[00:53:53] NorCal: Uh, um, not related to the, I mean, I guess I could throw one out that's related to this.
[00:53:57] NorCal: I would, Nah, I'll just go with, I think the hot take for me today is scarcity is preventing your secondary market just for all, for all your artists out there.
[00:54:10] Klutch: Wow. So it can, can you go further? Like what do you, what is you trying to apply here? Oh,
[00:54:17] NorCal: I mean, so there's, there's a worry that you need to have scarcity and that.
[00:54:27] NorCal: We need a secondary market, but because people are worried about scarcity, it's preventing a secondary market. Like the people that have secondary markets have hundreds of pieces out there. And I mean, currently there's not very many people that are at that level. But, uh, yeah, I think that's, uh, that's what I would say
[00:54:53] Klutch: that is spicy cuz uh, you know, obviously people like X copy or, or Guido or just tons of, tons of people have like a lot of additions actually.
[00:55:04] Klutch: But then you look at somebody like nude yoga girl, and I'm like, she's got very little, very, very few pieces out there it seems like. Right. But not much secondary. Yeah. I mean, how can you, when you have like, you know, a handful of pieces,
[00:55:18] NorCal: right? Yeah. It's, it's
[00:55:19] Klutch: almost, Im. What do you think about that, Aaron?
[00:55:22] Erin: God, that's a . That's a, a real shift. But that's such a hot topic because you know, like so many artists are like, well, you know, screw the secondary. You're, you're collecting my art to hold it forever. It's art for the art. Um, but you know, certainly you want the collector to feel secure that if they had to sell it, they could.
[00:55:42] Erin: So it's, it's, I think it's a different formula for every artist and they have to find what works for them and, and incorporate it, uh, kind of into their philosophy as an artist. Yeah, it's, it's very individual, but I, I do tend to agree with Norco. I think if there's nothing happening and you know nothing's happening, then do something.
[00:56:11] Klutch: giga, you got anything to add on that?
[00:56:14] Giga Chad: No, I mean, I think, I think Norco's, right? I think there is, I mean, I, I, I will, I guess the only counterpoint I could raise is that we are still so early in the space, it's really only been maybe two years of anything resembling a functioning art market in the space.
[00:56:31] Giga Chad: Um, and that's a pretty short time period for anybody to develop a secondary market. Um, and there's still the, the, uh, bridge between the traditional art world and, and NFTs where, you know, a lot of the, um, I'll say this pretty loosely, but best, uh, artists from the traditional art world, uh, find their way here, enjoy the ethos of the space, but then find like their, they're back to, uh, square one with, with pricing, with, uh, recognition, uh, with all of that.
[00:57:00] Giga Chad: And, uh, you know, there's, there's a balance there. But I think that, um, generally speaking, Norco's, right, uh, you need enough work on the market to reach enough people. If you're selling me a piece, It, it's probably not it in the secondary market anytime soon. So if you really want, uh, secondary sales from me, uh, you're asking me as a buyer, not a seller.
[00:57:21] Giga Chad: Um, and you know, that's just kind of, uh, again, my own, uh, collector thesis on where we're at in space, how young it is, and the type of artist that I tend to buy from. Um, you know, I'd be remiss to flip a piece that I bought for 0.3 E for one E. Uh, if I really believe in that artist, it's like the upside on that, uh, feels nearly infinite.
[00:57:42] Giga Chad: So, um, some counterpoints there, but largely I totally agree with NorCal.
[00:57:51] Giga Chad: Sounds like you had
[00:57:52] Klutch: a hot take there. Noel
[00:57:55] NorCal: finally, finally had one. .
[00:57:59] Klutch: Do you guys have any other things you would like to add or ask questions of us? Or if, if not, we can just, uh,
[00:58:08] Giga Chad: I will throw out for the group that we are working on a potential nude gallery in, uh, the at Art Bozel, uh, at the first week of December down in Miami.
[00:58:19] Giga Chad: So if you're in the area, uh, please keep up to date with us. I'm sure I will be blasting it on Twitter if and when that comes to fruition. And please follow the new neighborhood community on, uh, Twitter as well. It's sort of, uh, new Girls Love Child, but Erin Ala I, many others have put a lot of time and effort into it.
[00:58:38] Giga Chad: We are by far the biggest, uh, community in the open universe, so, uh, this is topic that interests you. Uh, we host spaces as well. We'd love to have you. Yeah. Plus
[00:58:50] Klutch: you guys have a Telegram channel too,
[00:58:51] Giga Chad: I believe, right? That's right. Yep.
[00:58:56] Klutch: Nice. Aaron, anything you would like to.
[00:58:59] Erin: No, I'm good. I would've just kind of said the same thing.
[00:59:02] Erin: If you're interested at all in new nude art, you know, join, join the new neighborhood because we have lots of, uh, great conversations like this going on and, you know, we're always looking for active members that wanna add more to the conversation. So if you're interested in anything, yeah, do that. And other, other than that, I'm just, uh, thankful to have been here with you guys.
[00:59:21] Erin: Good way to start the weekend. Good conversation. Could have gone on for hours cuz there's so many like little sub topics that kind of arise. But, um, thank you for your time guys. Yeah, thank you
[00:59:33] Klutch: both. Uh, if you, if any of you don't know our two guests yet, they are, uh, on Twitter at life with Art Underscore and at Gigga, Chad Pep.
[00:59:44] Klutch: Um, so please go throw them a follow. Uh, thank you both for your time. I learned a lot. Uh, I learned so much in the dms this week. It was crazy and I had so much fun talking to you guys. So really thank you both. Yes.
[00:59:56] NorCal: Thank you both.
[00:59:59] Erin: Thank you you guys. That's great.
[01:00:05] Giga Chad: Nor call Clutch Stain Old up on the show. Let's Keeping New Rail. All about the art. No, Thomas Day Heart first. You know the deal show. So respect to the Dope Connect, they drop the outfit. You won't forget no was in time. It's all by design it takes to make you.